Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Rules of engagement

I'm your friendly neighborhood commentator, seriously am the first to clap along to any
mainstream idea. I love to just express my accolades to all the conservative thoughts and posts that manage to come my way through the Jordanian blogosphere. For i think progress is just a trend that will pass and the idea and traditions that we have are not well known and adhered to enough so a smile is drawn upon my face every time i read some idea or post that reiterates what I have been hearing for the past two decades of my existence...

Since I try to be so nice when I comment and be perfectly PC with everyone, and I even comment with my name to help link to my blog and promote my ideas i thought to let you on some of the rules i don't adhere to when i actually get into a discussion. Not that i like to do that at all...

  • I think it is well known by now religiously where I stand, so unless I am talking about religion (not something that religion has a view on since thats just about everything really) please don't bless your position with credibility based on your religious views. That usually bestows your logic with as much credibility as someone telling me that the reason we see thunder is that Zeus had a bad day and is angry so he's just throwing his anger spears down at us.

  • When am discussing religion my main intent is to learn, so i will try to not do comparative examination of religions or trying to debunk it by quoting another religion that claims its the one and only truth. surprisingly theology is an interest of mine, and i like to always learn more about all Abrahamic religions so when am discussing a certain aspect of a religion am trying to see if my understanding matches that of a practitioner of that religion. don't attack me because of my other religious views

  • As soon as you throw a personal insult or you try to undermine my logic in an utterly illogical manner to me that just means you lost the argument and i will usually not bother arguing any further or I might rarely throw it back at you
do i need to quote trolly here ??

  • If I write a hearty & beefy comment that is not militant or aggressive and I don't get a reply that will translate to more than usual snide and Snarky remarks in the future

  • I don't write fortune cookies' fortunes and i don't understand them. so gibberish talk that makes little to no sense to anyone but your self and claiming that you trumpeted me and doing your celebration is your right. I hold mine to LMAO
Case file: the existance of god
have the courage to answer in a logical way instead of just turning roles, I always discuss with you the E=MC2 theory, and I proof to you that if mass reached light speed then the time effect will be 0, and the mass will be infinite, keep this theory in mind, and you will know you and all other bloggers and posters, that Allah is faster that light speed, and then there is no impact for time over him, and he is infinite.

  • Clappers and lets be friendly and peaceful crowd. I understand your stance, you are generic moderates and i actually like you, but when 2 people or more are discussing something its because they are trying to run their ideas (which they are generally proud off) against the wall and see if they break. It is not an act of aggression at all and shouldn't be taken personally so don't jump in and say why can't you all be friends and why are you arguing. face it life is not fair or friendly deal with it on your own time.

  • When I spend time to write down some questions or inquiries I am actually interested in how you reply to them, I take personal insult when you overlook them totally am move on to other points without heeding them as much as a notice. It is even worse when you track back to a previous premise just because after reading that you found out that you might have been mistaken about your logic.

  • I try as often as I can to admit my mistakes, so i would appreciate the same from the other party. don't hop over them or throw me some tinfoil theory about how the world is ruled by immoral scientist just to not admit that you made a mistake.

  • Talking about conspiracy theories, I like to entertain them personally but i check in my tinfoil hat when i enter a discussion. so skip a lot of the common place theories that are holy in our region (yes am speaking of that one too, they are not behind every bad thing that ever happened to us)

  • An apology might be just words but it can go a long way, apologize when you hurt someone wrongfully or without intention. It's not going to pop one of your balls, and I testify that mine are still intact.

  • When discussing a specific point and when we have both agreed that there was an error about the initial premise of the argument, don't go about expanding the argument or digressing to a related topic. that always reminds me of when i used to play consoles and whenever I would lose a lot of games i would keep on asking for one more chance...

  • I try to make my definitions clear(i know i mostly circumlocate normally hence the bold i try) so that there will be little doubt about what i am talking about, and i take care about what word i use to describe something since i believe in the nuances of a language. In this situation it is a capitol sin in my eyes to use an English word and an established western ideology and tell me that this specific English word has a localized meaning in Jordan that Arabs use that is in total contrast to the original definition.
Case File: definition of NeoLiberalism
In the Arab world, neo-liberal means fake liberal, the complementary political movement in the Arab world that exists to service the American neo-conservatism agenda..

  • If i find an idea so ludicrous and unbelievably wrong, then yes am going to be sarcastic and a bit harsh. you have the right to hate me i can live with that.
Case File: consequences of drinking
How pretty is it to wake up and find that you've killed your own kids by driving while drunk? That you may put your country at risk by what you mouthed while drunk? That you may have gone to bed with your own sister while both of you were drunk?! And all of that does happen, a lot.

  • If I disagree with you it doesn't mean I don't like you personally, i like to believe that i am a nice person contrary to what others say. you might hold a different perspective than might it doesn't detract from you as a person and neither should my position detract from my humanity the world is a colorful and vibrant place it would be too boring without that gradient so learn to appreciate it with an open mind.

  • I don't believe in trends and am not a trendster, if some of my ideas are trendy i don't hold them to gloat their popularity and i won't drop them when they cease to be so. My ideas are who i am, they are a mirror to what i see in mind, just the same way i don't see my self getting chin implants because my chin isn't appealing to others i won't bandwagon on an idea to be popular with others. That doesn't mean that i won't change my position, it just means that the idea evolved based on new evidence.
Case File: lack of religion
Many are “Atheists as a fashion” ESPECIALLY in Jordan .
  • I Am not a scholar, I don't hold degrees in half a dozen fields. when i want to have real life evidence I turn to statistic (and i am really careful to pick the least bias ones), now i understand the reality that statistic can be used to prove anything so i take care to see how these statistics where collected and that they are of a well established and recognized source. So you have no right to discredit scholars and experts with either your smudged case studies or *aghast* personal observation and experiences. I respect your personal observations and experience but they are personal and you can't generalize based solely on those especially when they contradict every scientifically accepted opinion or study. they hold peer reviews in statistics for a reason.
Case File: relevance of genetics in psychological disorders
Now explain something to me. If something is Genetic, how come a psychologist is making the claim that it's inherited! I haven't heard anyone inheriting depression so why this? Wouldn't this be actually Outside the psychological realm?
explanation of mine:
since one of the most common causes of psychological disorders is genetics, and that is the bases for the diathesis-stress, and genetics is the cause for the predisposition you have been talking about earlier but that is triggered by the environment and experience in the case of alcoholism.... [with alot more following that]

Genetics are becoming every one's coat hanger these days. Even Aids turned out to be genetic with some people having higher tendencies to have it more than other.
I think for modern science. Anything we can't explain, we attribute it back to genetics

  • To all the gadflies and Galileo's, having an opinion against the mainstream or getting under people's skin and annoying them doesn't automatically translate into you being a genius with a brilliant and right idea. It just means you are a woo. so do your homework and stop being so stubborn and if you value your science then try reviewing the scientific method. As history has proven there aren't as many Galileo as is commonly claimed. plus its shameless boasting too.

Happy discussions everyone and I'll try my best to follow my rules am not asking anyone else to, just saying thats all

ps. it was tougher than i thought to collect the case files, and don't object to me including them here since they are things that are available and a lot of us have passed by. If you don't like it don't claim it then.

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  • Before I even read . YIKES ,this post will take me a couple of days to finish.

    But OMG I LOVE your long posts, they are like novels

    By Blogger 7aki Fadi, At 14/11/07 18:30  

  • You are the braver version of me bambam because I agree with everything you said but I hold back all the time , because I feel it is really futile to argue 90% of the time because people are not there to learn but there to just bestow their wisdom upon us without thinking or using logic. that’s how I feel, it leads nowhere most of the time.

    But as you said in one of the aforementioned case files on one of those posts that (and I am quoting you loosely here ) " If only one person reading this changed their mind then I am happy"

    I heart this post .

    Funny that I actually read all the posts mentioned in the case files and felt exactly what you felt. I

    LMAO at "To all the gadflies and Galileo's, having an opinion against the mainstream or getting under people's skin and annoying them doesn't automatically translate into you being a genius with a brilliant and right idea. "

    By Blogger 7aki Fadi, At 14/11/07 18:58  

  • I am glad you feel that way 7aki, i wont deny I like arguing and having a discussion, and it frustrates because like you said most of the time its like trying to punch a hole in the air.
    what keeps me going is just that if i manage to convince one person reading the discussion of my view or to atleast seriously rethink his then i would be happy with my investment.

    am trying *squat* *squat* hope i get some where :)

    By Blogger No_Angel, At 14/11/07 19:48  

  • Funny thing I remember is that only a couple had an opinion against a mainstream in a case that you have actually cited here.

    But whatever, you're not any better. You're also bestowing your wisdom on us and for the most part there is a lot of cool stuff here. That's one long article that you might wanna break up in 16 piece to give each one it's importance (just a humble opinion here)

    But trust me, there are more Galileos in this world than we care to admit! Many of them are not even saying something new, but it's the things we don't want to hear.

    We have all been polluted with a number of ideas that made it to the main stream making original thought a problem. Discouraged and even ridiculed!

    So carry on :)

    By Anonymous Qwaider قويدر, At 14/11/07 20:03  

  • by the way bambam, since you are intersted in theology, have you read Karen Armstrongs books? "History of God" and a "Battle for God"?

    Great reads!

    By Blogger 7aki Fadi, At 14/11/07 20:08  

  • golly Bam, I was scared to death I would find one of my comments in this list! Then I remembered you are a fair person and would let me know first. Whew! But I know I have some that would have made the list.

    Rule #1 Think before you comment here, and comment with intellectual responsibly. It's a privilege, not a right.

    Knowing you are out there, Bam, and might call me on a stupid comment, has stopped me more than once and made me think it through a little more.

    I need to give the whole thing more thought, but I relate to the frustration of pouring your heart into a post/comment and getting NO feedback.

    7aki, now I know what LMAO means. You provided the perfect context. :)

    By Anonymous kinzi, At 15/11/07 00:08  

  • Q yes that might be the case but I am only stating my terms am not asking anyone to adhere by them but me, but i still appreciate you describing it as wise ...
    I might actually break it up on a later time :)
    for the Galileos not saying something new, and it being something we don't want to here makes it purely annoying and a waste of time really. if an idea doesn't pick up steam with people from different backgrounds then it better off for it to die and wither away

    By Blogger No_Angel, At 15/11/07 10:58  

  • 7aki no i actually didn't read those, i'll make sure to go grab them up they seem interesting. right now christopher hitchens book is up next on the list for me so we'll see how that goes.

    kinzi you noticed i didn't attach a name to any of the comments, and i actually tried to look for some of our back and forth comments to put here. i didn't actually ask people to quote them since i thought it was available public not something more private like last time so i didn't, do you think i should've ?

    actually hearing what you said brought a smile to my morning i just hope it doesn't have too much of a boogey man effect :P

    By Blogger No_Angel, At 15/11/07 11:23  

  • Glad you are smiling. Not a boogeyman affect, just a different degree of intellectual accountability. Meaning: am I just being flippant or arrogant, do I really have facts to back up what I am saying, have I thought through the implications.

    I figure if me or 7aki said something dumb, you'd give as a little grace as two of your Most Regular Commentors. :) No names necessary.

    By Anonymous kinzi, At 15/11/07 11:31  

  • you already know that you get that much atleast :)

    By Blogger No_Angel, At 15/11/07 11:32  

  • Fazee3. I must agree with 7aki Fadi, I love your long posts, they're very intimidating to most readers out there, which lowers down the amount of idiotic comments. Plus, I like this case file idea; I might even steal the idea! :-) (After paying for royalties of course ;-).

    By Anonymous Made in Jordan, At 15/11/07 12:13  

  • I am glad that I didn't skip this post.

    Honestly, its length is scary, but as I started checking it up, I ended hooked till I finished it to the last line.

    You have spoken my mind. It is just frustrating trying to logic with some one who doesn't adhere to the basic practices of logical conclusions.

    But it can also be beneficial to add to your awarnace of how much people differ, even in reasoning!

    By Blogger The Observer, At 19/11/07 11:21  

  • MIJ hey ur welcome to use it and am glad you like it.

    observer hehe sorry for the length it just came out that way, but am happy to hear that it was worth it.
    yuppers, it is really frustrating arguing with someone when they don't follow, at least, the basics of logic and continuity.

    By Blogger No_Angel, At 21/11/07 10:16  

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