Thursday, March 15, 2007

Where I stand ?

Well am incognito by nature but recently the current controversy on Qwaider.com
made me voice my opinion, though I didn't like having to explain where I stand with comment replies anymore, so ya It had to be a post. I wish this wouldn't be posted on qwaider for a reason I dont want to share in the preview ..... I apologize for a rong(not a mispelling so figure it out) and for the most part a badly composed post








So A guy from Jordan wants to join Qwaider planet, oh well lets check what he has to say.
3 lines and a couple of minutes later ...... epht 2o ba3dein ma3a 5alas wislat 2il ma3lome7 i figured it out from the first second already. Close the window and move on, not worthy checking it out again. That was/is my opinion, came back to the original thread a while later and things blew up literally. By then I was intrigued enough to join in (put my gloves on and digged in -_-').
So I commented Here & Here, I usually use my nick bambam if I don't have an account so you will find it under that name too.

So thats the story so far, that got me started on a lot of issues, one of them is where I stand towards the gay issues, and of course religion since we are in Jordan after all.

To make one thing clear, I said I was not in favour of the blog being added to the planet due to its content, and I solidified my opinion when I was reminded that no everyone there is an adult(18+) so that was a no brainer.

Regarding the gay issue; I don't think it is the most important issue in our region, far from it.
I don't think it is the most important issue globally even.
I didn't think that we had so many republicans in Jordan (anyone get this joke or am i being too patronizing here)
The problem as I see it is that we are in denial and always been, not just about it but about a lot of similar issues (prostitution, ideals, religion, politics, drugs, racism, discrimination ...etc)
As Arabs we got used to looking the other way, we fail to notice titanics in the room so elephants are a non-issue.

So the idea that western ideals, and behaviors are corrupting our chastised youth is so overplayed.
Out of my knowledge, currently we are a lot more conservative than we were in the 1950's and 60's. film in that era is an indication, but am talking about life in the cities (i.e. larger population and upscale society) they were downright liberal !
Also to my knowledge gays were dealt with "its not my business " attitude, hell if i recollect correctly they were preferred over straights (men prefer their wives go to a gay hairdresser rather than a straight one ).
So I never thought that westernization affected this region just a bunch of PR talk. The gay/pederasty issue was always there albeit ignored and not really visible to cause any fuss. It was there through out our history from Andalusia to Sufism(although this is way different and I didn't want to put it here).

Religion does forbid it, so it makes me cringe when someone tries to twist religion to his own mold, one thing I admire about a religious person is an ability to differentiate his interpretation from religion, alas but I don't think there are many. On the other hand you better not condemn anyone to hell, it seriously is not your business. So thats why I feel its not the correct path to take on this argument, since I hope that it is clear that it is a sin. Just another note here the punishment for it is the same as any out of marriage relationship given that the person is not involved in a marriage not more or less otherwise i believe the punishment is death if he is married again same as for all parties committing adultery (thats what i remember reading so if someone has a reference please share it)
On the other side of the religion basis is the fact that some people are not religious period, so telling god said that and that is like blowing in a ruptured balloon, i don't understand why people like wedz find it their personal vendetta to coerce people into their religious beliefs, is that an insecurity they feel that if no one was on the same page as they were they will not achieve salvation ? Hell better be filled with some people ??!!

So that leaves the last thing the social base, in that i can't argue that its accepted anywhere ! so fact is that we barely discuss any taboo (more like taught not to think about even) but with the internet nowadays our ugly behind is rearing its end on our faces, we see and hear things that got limited exposure in the past,
We are nurtured to be racist, sexist ...et al to anything we consider foreign (taken as different)
That is one of our major issues, we have a superiority complex when it comes to all things Arab, and that attitude will get us no where !
We have the us Vs. them mentality.
I am going to be a hypocrite here and come out, I don't like falaheen :D, not to take it the wrong way what i mean is that am a city so i can't relate to their issues, my best friend could be considered one. So at least i try to appreciate where they are coming from, and its one of the first things I would tell them so that they either blow in my face or avoid the subject

What I despised is the manner people carried them selves, one person tried to out another based on speculation. others were comparing them to pedophiles, necrophiliacs which I think is baseless.
My argument to that is that in those cases they and other examples put through (including incest) they are predators, whether they want to be understood or not, am not gonna argue "made that way" or "choice" but lets put it that way, why would someone want to ostracized ?
he must gain something of value, predators (according to research, will edit to reference it) get stimulated by the physical side the violence, not the thought of it.
So in that lies the difference between the two sides. a
there were the neo liberals, and even goat lovers. yes i was lumped under the former.
then there was tolerance ... if you are not tolerant of me am not tolerant of you kinda crap.
The funny thing is the original post asked for a simple yes, no answer. Everyone ended up shoving their lewd ideas into each other.
Although I held a similar position to theirs (I voted no) i guess i was not very welcome in my comments due to me not joining the "sheep"(I'll give some the benefit of the doubt) in their bashing . one common trait between most of the bashing one is that they were pseudo, almost as thin as their ideas. I really wanted to answer some but they didn't really have anything i could dig into (then again i just recalled that my bambam falls in that category too :D )

nyways in any case we run to the moral high ground in a discussion you are not helping it go your way at all, I know am stubborn enough to play the devil's advocate. The thing that bothers me the most is that some really like the attention they get out of issues like these.
that was a total "hey looky here AM GAY" moment, being gay should not really garner any special treatment in my opinion under any circumstances. I might see it their way with regards to rights, but I don't see it as the governing attribute of a person. so i don't like the in your face "i am gay sticker" that the popular gay culture adopts, i think feminine guys are amusing in short dosages. I think that among gays there are some that are confused (not the majority thought) AND THOSE DON'T REALLY RESPOND TO BEING ATTACKED WELL THAT WILL CONFUSE THEM EVEN MORE. Just try to listen nothing more, that will be the best help you can do to anyone faced with the dilemma, the less you talk the less damage will be done.
What was unexpected to me is that only Tala
was able to argue decently on the point that was of intrigue since in my view i would see a lot of parallels between gay rights and women rights, especially in the way they are viewed. She argued th1e case of leadership and their inability to fit in such a demanding position that was a job well done.
That is what I got out of the situation, and I still want to learn more about people. all shapes and colors. maybe someday I can tolerate being around Indians :P


Best comment I could relate to was by
Qwaider,
Honestly, I didn't like the guy's blog, and i wouldn't think of reading it again.

But not adding it because of the blogger's sexual orientation, or because sex is a taboo or the disacceptance of ppl is in my opinion poor..

If I were you I would find another "good homosexual" blog and add it.

If I were homosexual, I wouldn't choose that blog to represent me! Shulli sareeran dafi2an u 7aki fadi !!

gay ppl can talk about themselves and their problems in a much better way, and they have interests in life other that sex

on the other hand It blow my mind when I read this reply to my comment
Faqih:

"gods sake what what would have happened if u met that [gay] person face to face."

we meet them all the time, like at Books@Cafe and nothing happens because they don't shove it down our throat. that's the point you keep refusing to understand because it's your way or the highway, right? you want us to line up for your sho sho train before you call us tolerant. well, that will never happen. so learn to accept that others will not agree with you and they have the right not to agree with you. learn tolerance before you preach it.
First of all i was not preaching tolerance, I don't give a flying (bleep) if people are more tolerant or not. I don't go to books@cafe for that exact reason, I don't like the atmosphere. So who is trying to shove words in my mouth. Such a hypocrite. Trust me, my stomach turns if I see any sexual perversion in public, but i learned to avoid getting to worked out about it.
U on the other hand got a long way on the learning ladder my friend so shut up and read more variety. MIGHT ENLIGHTEN U A BIT

WOWZY Kudos to anyone that got past the 2nd paragraph, looks like an abu shreek post


Appropriately listening to Eminem - criminal please listen to it you'll get the point quicker than reading

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6 Comments:

  • WOW man ... Kudos to you too for such a long and detailed article...

    I was right at the very top about couple of things.
    1) It's such a tough decision
    2) We SUCK when it comes to diversity. Taboos everywhere

    Thanks... ya3teek el 3afyeh. Don't EVER feel discouraged from stating your mind on my blog. Mi Casa Su Casa

    By Anonymous Qwaider قويدر, At 15/3/07 12:56  

  • Well said No_Angel, I read it all :P

    I honestly, and eventhought that there has been much hatred and screaming in those debates, I like to read every single one's pont of view. People differ in their level of maturity, smartness and intellectuality.

    I has been a good sport to the mind dealing with all those.

    I just enjoyed speaking out my mind, even if it didnt affect anyone, I know that I gaind from this debate.

    By Blogger The Observer, At 15/3/07 13:43  

  • NO Angel, i gotta go back and read..i think with being out of my normal environment, i am missing out on a lot of things....feels like i am missing out on school and homework!!!

    By Blogger Summer, At 15/3/07 14:36  

  • Qwaider well thank u, 2alla 2iy3afeek 3alla 2il heat u have been taking for the issue. I never did think that but then again i didn't want the whole planet to swarm again :D
    it is a tough decision and i think you handled it in a good manner(tho u would got less heat if u highlighted the issue with content more rather the title :S)
    To only way to plant on a rock is to water it with patience


    observer the thing is that
    when some one resort to personal insult it is below the belt. that take some resolve to not stoop to that level in a reply. so i commend u for that
    Purely what matters is that We learned and i hope enjoyed no matter what side ur on

    summer sweety i totally know what it feels like, when i was in bahrain i couldn't keep up much and felt like something is missing from my routine. I hope you are enjoying the time you are spending with the kids and your daughter. keep up the good news flowing :)

    As always ENJOY

    By Blogger No_Angel, At 15/3/07 17:51  

  • Qwaider you are a hardliner who si hiding behind your bloggers. shame on you. You should include the gay website if you don't have an issue with it. After all, none pays your rent but you and none of the "anti" bloggers pay your salary. so shame shame shame on you for hiding behind them then playing Mr. Diversity. Make sacrifices for diversity, little sacrifices, if you believe in what you say. Add the gay website NOW!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 15/3/07 18:29  

  • Yep, shame on me... for so many things I can't even wrap my mind around them yet.
    I have added bogs that have such controversial content that almost everyone else has turned them down. Why? I guess because I don't believe in diversity and freedom of speech!
    I'm not going to play the victim here or ask for every one's acceptance, That battle has been lost long time ago, and so many times that only a fool will attempt it

    What I will say, there will be other times, and other issues, and other stands ... And if anything this whole ordeal taught me things that will -hopefully- help me make better decisions in the future

    By Anonymous Qwaider قويدر, At 16/3/07 20:41  

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